Curse

Zeek Aran · Oct 12, 2007, 11:37 AM // 11:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandHermet

Farm destroyer cores seems the farming code really affects these past your first stack. I recieved 3-7 cores a run clearing the first wave of them before my first 250 cores, now i recieve 2-4 a run.

I'm at 151, and I'm lucky if I get one core from the first wave. I think you were just REALLY damn lucky.

pipedream · Oct 12, 2007, 11:48 AM // 11:48

It was removed that I know... if you left the Hints function on I think it actually told you when the farm code kicked in... suggesting that you do something else basically. I am not a power farmer and I never have the Hints on so I personally have not witnessed it but I heard that what it did from a pretty reliable source.

Antheus · Oct 12, 2007, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zeek Aran

I'm at 151, and I'm lucky if I get one core from the first wave. I think you were just REALLY damn lucky.

Interesting. And I think you were just REALLY damn unlucky.

That's the thing. GW's loot model allows for high variations. Of course, when someone gets 3 gold drops in a row, or 8 cores from a single run, they are too busy selling and making profit.

But when they don't get anything in a single run, it's anti-farming code, bugged characters, and everything else...

There is currently no evidence or any relevant information that any such code would exist. This simply means, that if there is such code, the effects are subtle enough to not be noticed, or they kick in only in extreme cases (doing more than 50 runs in a day or such, let alone farming for 30 hours straight).

On a first run of the day doing SS/LB, I got exactly two white items. Was that farm code? Nope. Because on all other runs I got exactly the same value of junk items. Same for golds and chest drops. And then, on one run, I got 3 golds assigned to me, dropping consecutively from 3 mobs.

Greens do no make for good drop estimation, since they have such low drop chance.

Farm items, and record how much money you make from each run. It will be consistent.

EternalTempest · Oct 12, 2007, 12:20 PM // 12:20

Doing HM SS/LB Farming - same zone repeatedly.

Drops appears to stay random, some good runs, some crappy runs but does not seem to be "less" as time goes on.

MYSTERYouse · Oct 12, 2007, 12:52 PM // 12:52

I would like to share my expirience with the loot system. I started to farm Hulking Stone Elementals and I must agree that there is some factor that affects the drops. I dont want to call it loot scaling/farm code, but its true that something is out there - I got about 5 golds on one run, then any for the whole day...I dont know if its only the %-wise drop rate and luck or its something else ...

baz777 · Oct 12, 2007, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandHermet

Farm destroyer cores seems the farming code really affects these past your first stack. I recieved 3-7 cores a run clearing the first wave of them before my first 250 cores, now i recieve 2-4 a run.

I farm these as well and generally get between 2-4 cores for clearing the first wave, (max 6 once).

However, the other night I tried I was geeting 0-1 cores.

Logged on the following night and the drops reverted back to normal.

Very strange

Antheus · Oct 12, 2007, 01:49 PM // 13:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by baz777

I farm these as well and generally get between 2-4 cores for clearing the first wave, (max 6 once).

However, the other night I tried I was geeting 0-1 cores.

Logged on the following night and the drops reverted back to normal.

Very strange

Why strange?

What is the average number of cores you should be getting? What is the server's assigned drop rate for cores?

You assume that 2-4 is normal. What if drop rate is 1 core? From your observation, the drop is 1.5 on average.

The reason people assume there's a system in place, is because they take their best run, and consider everything else to be "fixed". It's the definition of "normal" that you do not have.

HayesA · Oct 12, 2007, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Wait a beat here... I thought Anet said they took out Loot Scaling in Normal Mode, and it's only in Hard Mode to deter some serious farm spots?

Malice Black · Oct 12, 2007, 02:15 PM // 14:15

It's called the "Anti-bot" code

Only people who farm likes bots get stung with it.

makosi · Oct 12, 2007, 02:21 PM // 14:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malice Black

It's called the "Anti-bot" code

Only people who farm likes bots get stung with it.

In that case it's sucky coding because the bots never have a shortage of unidentified golds for sale in Spamadan International District 1.

HawkofStorms · Oct 12, 2007, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Farm code DID exist but was since replaced by the loot scaling system. It said so itself in the update notes one time that a.net removed the farm code. Would seem kinda silly for a.net to say they removed something if it never existed in the first place.

Nomen Mendax · Oct 12, 2007, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by MYSTERYouse

I would like to share my expirience with the loot system. I started to farm Hulking Stone Elementals and I must agree that there is some factor that affects the drops. I dont want to call it loot scaling/farm code, but its true that something is out there - I got about 5 golds on one run, then any for the whole day...I dont know if its only the %-wise drop rate and luck or its something else ...

Without knowing the probability of a gold dropping its hard to know if this is strange or not.

On the assumption that ANet aren't outright lying:

we know that there is loot scaling, so that non-rare items drop rate is reduced based on: max party size for the area * a secret random factor
many of us suspect that the (solo) drop rate is also reduced if multiple kills occur around the same time. I started to compile statistics about this while killing vermin but got bored before getting enough data to run tests on.

Which brings me to my first point - you can't make any meaningful conclusions about drop rates until you have a reasonable amount of data, and you pretty much have to write it down, as memory can be selective.

My other point is why does this stuff have to be secret? I strongly dislike the idea (and implementation) of loot scaling, but what is even more annoying is the fact that ANet just won't give out hard information about it.

IslandHermet · Oct 12, 2007, 02:54 PM // 14:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Why strange?

What is the average number of cores you should be getting? What is the server's assigned drop rate for cores?

You assume that 2-4 is normal. What if drop rate is 1 core? From your observation, the drop is 1.5 on average.

The reason people assume there's a system in place, is because they take their best run, and consider everything else to be "fixed". It's the definition of "normal" that you do not have.

to answer you question have you even been to glints challenge and seen how many destroyers are in the first wave?? 1 a run would be a insult from Anet.

and yes 2-4 is normal considering every run yealds 2-4 and every 20th run yealds 4-7. I cant say that I have been so unlucky to only get 1 a run im sad for you and hope your next 10 runs yeald 7 cores each run.:-)

HawkofStorms · Oct 12, 2007, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomen Mendax

\My other point is why does this stuff have to be secret? I strongly dislike the idea (and implementation) of loot scaling, but what is even more annoying is the fact that ANet just won't give out hard information about it.

If a.net gave out the hard data on how exactly the loot system works and where, when, and why good loot droped, then bots would be able to be made to avoid the proverbal red flags and squeeze through loopholes.

Nomen Mendax · Oct 12, 2007, 03:45 PM // 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by HawkofStorms

If a.net gave out the hard data on how exactly the loot system works and where, when, and why good loot droped, then bots would be able to be made to avoid the proverbal red flags and squeeze through loopholes.

I would guess that that would be ANet's answer. The problem is the bot runners have the time and volume of kills to figure out (roughly) what is going on, whereas I don't. I suppose that ANet has to fix its priorities between keeping its customers informed versus making life a little harder for bots. I think it's pretty clear what they've chosen here.

The lack of information about this is irritating as not knowing how drops are scaled makes it harder for me to figure out how to play. Also if drops are reduced by killing a lot of things very quickly then I think that it is an absolutely terrible mechanism. If I want to play solo (no henchies) either to do a bit of farming or just do some exploring then it seems crazy to deliberately try to kill things slowly!

CHunterX · Oct 12, 2007, 03:55 PM // 15:55

Its still there, at least its painfully obvious in Normal Mode. Can't say the same for Hard Mode, I don't spend as much time in it. Strange someone hasn't started flaming everyone in the thread for not believing the Law that is Areanet, however. Just because there is no 'hints' warning you of its existence doesn't mean it's not there.

Antheus · Oct 12, 2007, 04:00 PM // 16:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandHermet

to answer you question have you even been to glints challenge and seen how many destroyers are in the first wave?? 1 a run would be a insult from Anet.

and yes 2-4 is normal considering every run yealds 2-4 and every 20th run yealds 4-7. I cant say that I have been so unlucky to only get 1 a run im sad for you and hope your next 10 runs yeald 7 cores each run.:-)

Yes, I've been there.

First wave is really no big deal, since most of the stuff there is level 15-18.

Loot scaling divides everything between your party. Yes, 1 per first wave is perfectly normal.

My average there was 2.6 per mission over the time needed to get 250.

Many runs yielded nothing, perhaps one white drop.
Record I've had was 6 cores per run, several times.
Many runs yielded one.

Statistics doesn't guarantee. If you didn't get anything on this run - you are NOT GUARANTEED anything on the next run. Belief into anything else is Gamblers Falacy.

Each game you play is completely independent from all that you have played before, and all you will play after. There is no difference between playing one game or one million. Each mob you kill has independent chance of a drop.

I didn't keep track of actual drops. I merely counted the number of games needed to collect 250. This hand-waving of 2-4 and 4-7 is nothing. Write down the number per run for 1000+ runs, then you may determine whether the results are even statistically significant.

There is no anti-farming code. Just because I'm not getting 50 drops per run doesn't mean that's some conspiracy.

The only thing that is true - every farmer doubles their actual drops, and halves the time needed. This is the only thing that has ever been proven to be true. And everyone reads forums, then goes into game, and doesn't make even nearly as much money, or gets as many drops.

And the cycle repeats.

MYSTERYouse · Oct 12, 2007, 04:34 PM // 16:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomen Mendax

Without knowing the probability of a gold dropping its hard to know if this is strange or not.

On the assumption that ANet aren't outright lying:

we know that there is loot scaling, so that non-rare items drop rate is reduced based on: max party size for the area * a secret random factor
many of us suspect that the (solo) drop rate is also reduced if multiple kills occur around the same time. I started to compile statistics about this while killing vermin but got bored before getting enough data to run tests on.

Which brings me to my first point - you can't make any meaningful conclusions about drop rates until you have a reasonable amount of data, and you pretty much have to write it down, as memory can be selective.

My other point is why does this stuff have to be secret? I strongly dislike the idea (and implementation) of loot scaling, but what is even more annoying is the fact that ANet just won't give out hard information about it.

True, I am not making a conclusion, I am just maybe the one of the lot who had similar experience while soloing some mobs. But having a details about the mathematical system which is behind the drop system would be fine and it could save us - players maybe a lot of time as well as our frustration not getting a "good drops"

=DNC=Trucker · Oct 12, 2007, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nomen Mendax

Without knowing the probability of a gold dropping its hard to know if this is strange or not.

On the assumption that ANet aren't outright lying:

we know that there is loot scaling, so that non-rare items drop rate is reduced based on: max party size for the area * a secret random factor
many of us suspect that the (solo) drop rate is also reduced if multiple kills occur around the same time. I started to compile statistics about this while killing vermin but got bored before getting enough data to run tests on.

Which brings me to my first point - you can't make any meaningful conclusions about drop rates until you have a reasonable amount of data, and you pretty much have to write it down, as memory can be selective.

I encourage anyone to actually do the work and write down the data (oh, a laptop with excel makes it sooo much easier) If you want the fastest proof of the "reduced when killing at once" thing, go do 3-4 runs of the famous "Fastfoot" farm. First, ball up the entire group and kill them all at once with (SS, searing flames/MS, disease - whatever you desire, as long as they all fall at once). Count the drops. Then, go back in and kill them one at a time (a 55 spoil victor works pretty good for this).

Here is a thread from a long time ago, some people collected a LOT of data to prove what is really going on: http://guildwarsguru.com/forum/showt...php?t=10159729

HawkofStorms · Oct 12, 2007, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Yes, I've been there.

First wave is really no big deal, since most of the stuff there is level 15-18.

Loot scaling divides everything between your party. Yes, 1 per first wave is perfectly normal.

My average there was 2.6 per mission over the time needed to get 250.

Many runs yielded nothing, perhaps one white drop.
Record I've had was 6 cores per run, several times.
Many runs yielded one.

Statistics doesn't guarantee. If you didn't get anything on this run - you are NOT GUARANTEED anything on the next run. Belief into anything else is Gamblers Falacy.

Each game you play is completely independent from all that you have played before, and all you will play after. There is no difference between playing one game or one million. Each mob you kill has independent chance of a drop.

I didn't keep track of actual drops. I merely counted the number of games needed to collect 250. This hand-waving of 2-4 and 4-7 is nothing. Write down the number per run for 1000+ runs, then you may determine whether the results are even statistically significant.

There is no anti-farming code. Just because I'm not getting 50 drops per run doesn't mean that's some conspiracy.

The only thing that is true - every farmer doubles their actual drops, and halves the time needed. This is the only thing that has ever been proven to be true. And everyone reads forums, then goes into game, and doesn't make even nearly as much money, or gets as many drops.

And the cycle repeats.

Win. Same is true with lockpick chances. I wish everybody would understand as much statistics as this guy.